Hi,
I am feeling more and more that phpwcms has really alot of small bugs everywhere. Even new contentparts are not 100%. If I compare with other systems where the basic things works bug free when released(not dev).
Here people have to fix things in the corecode all the time - in the final versions! And the fixes and hacks are just everywhere in the forum and external sites...no real strucutre on the hacks/plugins. Much better now with brans doing his hack-plugin site!
I know people that say that phpwcms are a sloppy coded but as I am not a core programmer I just can't say. And I know that Oliver is working his as off with it. There has been discussions about why he don't make it a bigger project and involve other programmers but he wants to have the control over phpwcms and it doesn't help at all in the process he says. But where is the control now? Just look in the forum how many problems there are! And I just feel that it is getting more and more for every release, not less! Because of the new contentparts.
Maybe it is wrong to complain, because it is free and someone is working on his spare time on it. But I am not complaining, just telling how I feel it is now...
But maybe I am the only one?
/ Gnolen
Could we expect a bugfree phpwcms?
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brans
hmm as I am browsing through this forum very frequently I can say that 99% of the problems would have been solved if
a.) more ppl would read the docu
b.) more ppl would just search for errors they did by theirself before trying to find a solution at this forum
I have very unfrequently seen serious bugs in phpwcms that I couldn't trace back to an error that was produced by misshandling from my side during the installation. Another problem is that loads of people use hacks even if they have never used php before. They really should read some basic php tutorial before trying to work with this scripting language.
So in my opinion the most errors occur because phpwcms is so easy to use and therefore there are so many "web-beginners" using it without experience on how to get into a new program.
a.) more ppl would read the docu
b.) more ppl would just search for errors they did by theirself before trying to find a solution at this forum
I have very unfrequently seen serious bugs in phpwcms that I couldn't trace back to an error that was produced by misshandling from my side during the installation. Another problem is that loads of people use hacks even if they have never used php before. They really should read some basic php tutorial before trying to work with this scripting language.
So in my opinion the most errors occur because phpwcms is so easy to use and therefore there are so many "web-beginners" using it without experience on how to get into a new program.
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Pappnase
I can agree that a lot of the posts here are user-related problems. Nevertheless I think that 1.1-RC4 should have been striped a bit just to make it perfect. These releses should also been dev. releses I think if you think how things work. Some content parts are not really perfectly written.
I just want to see some kind of roadmap or vision(maybe there is one that I haven't seen). What will phpwcms become? What changes could we expect..For which webbuilders/users? And so on...
I do not wish to complain about phpwcms, I am just in a stage right know where I am pulling my hair just because some small bugs or minor things in phpwcms dev.
/ Gnolen
I just want to see some kind of roadmap or vision(maybe there is one that I haven't seen). What will phpwcms become? What changes could we expect..For which webbuilders/users? And so on...
I do not wish to complain about phpwcms, I am just in a stage right know where I am pulling my hair just because some small bugs or minor things in phpwcms dev.
/ Gnolen
Hi everyone,
I'm working with phpwcms for some weeks now. Most if the time, it's a private investigation on my localhost, only.
I think that the current DEV version is very good (I didn't user the RC).
I agree with everyone, who thought that the error is in front of the screen, most of the time.
But in one point I agree to Gnolen. I would like to see a roadmap, too.
The reason is, that I support a friend of mine, who is freelancer and we are planing his website. We want to take phpwcms. Now it would be a good information, when you will make new public releases. Maybe we could wait for the next RC or public version. I don't like to set up a website with the current DEV and then spend a lot of time to migrate it to the official release, let's say a week later.
Cheers
KiWiX
PS: I hope you understand that right. I like phpwcms and I'm a developer who is able to see the time and work spended on the project. I'm impressed, every time I find a new feature. Great work boys!
I'm working with phpwcms for some weeks now. Most if the time, it's a private investigation on my localhost, only.
I think that the current DEV version is very good (I didn't user the RC).
I agree with everyone, who thought that the error is in front of the screen, most of the time.
But in one point I agree to Gnolen. I would like to see a roadmap, too.
The reason is, that I support a friend of mine, who is freelancer and we are planing his website. We want to take phpwcms. Now it would be a good information, when you will make new public releases. Maybe we could wait for the next RC or public version. I don't like to set up a website with the current DEV and then spend a lot of time to migrate it to the official release, let's say a week later.
Cheers
KiWiX
PS: I hope you understand that right. I like phpwcms and I'm a developer who is able to see the time and work spended on the project. I'm impressed, every time I find a new feature. Great work boys!
I think everyone has a point here. Obviously Wcms is undergoing evolution....and only getting better. I have found the forums most helpful and informative in documenting bugs and so forth....(but the search fearture is less than perfect)....so this is the place to start, yes do agree.
It would be nice to see a newsletter of sorts that could be subscribed too. I think I read about this earlier. Newsletter might document know issues and help summarize the status of releases and whether RC4, 191 or 121 is the way to go for a given project. I had to downgrade from 121 to 191 to solve double login (unexceptable to client) and sendmail function used in newsletter (did not work for 121). Would be nice to have this summarized somewhere....
It would be nice to see a newsletter of sorts that could be subscribed too. I think I read about this earlier. Newsletter might document know issues and help summarize the status of releases and whether RC4, 191 or 121 is the way to go for a given project. I had to downgrade from 121 to 191 to solve double login (unexceptable to client) and sendmail function used in newsletter (did not work for 121). Would be nice to have this summarized somewhere....
I think PHPWCMS is fantastic, but I have to agree with gnolen on this issue. I currently use RC4 which I have to confess is very good. I think the dev version sounds even better, but there are issues with RC4 that I was hoping would have been resolved before moving on to something new. The dev version has generated a completely different set of problems and from a newcomer's perspective it may well appear that PHPWCMS is interminably flawed.
If everything in RC4 was fixed and it was released as a stable version, everyone could use it with confidence and eagerly await the next release. But that's the problem - there never has been a final stable release of PHPWCMS. I respect Pappnase's point about the pressure from users to adopt new features, but from a developer's perspective, evolution should go from alpha to beta to RC to stable. Oliver's talents are unquestionable, but he keeps missing out the stable bit!
If everything in RC4 was fixed and it was released as a stable version, everyone could use it with confidence and eagerly await the next release. But that's the problem - there never has been a final stable release of PHPWCMS. I respect Pappnase's point about the pressure from users to adopt new features, but from a developer's perspective, evolution should go from alpha to beta to RC to stable. Oliver's talents are unquestionable, but he keeps missing out the stable bit!
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jscholtysik
Hi all,
Oliver Georgi and also Pappnase have repeated it many times: RC4 is stable, 1.1.9 is stable and also 1.2.1 is so stable to use it in a production environment. Are you only using a stable version if the word "STABLE" is in the name? Simply trust the developer! He uses it the whole day!
Oliver Georgi is also enhancing and correcting phpwcms while he works for his clients, so if phpwcms would not be stable or would had many severe bugs, all his clients would cry...
phpwcms is so simple to change and to adapt! Try to test Typo3 and you will know what I mean...
And the support here in this forum beats the pants off Typo3 with its many, many newsgroups.
Joachim
Oliver Georgi and also Pappnase have repeated it many times: RC4 is stable, 1.1.9 is stable and also 1.2.1 is so stable to use it in a production environment. Are you only using a stable version if the word "STABLE" is in the name? Simply trust the developer! He uses it the whole day!
Oliver Georgi is also enhancing and correcting phpwcms while he works for his clients, so if phpwcms would not be stable or would had many severe bugs, all his clients would cry...
phpwcms is so simple to change and to adapt! Try to test Typo3 and you will know what I mean...
And the support here in this forum beats the pants off Typo3 with its many, many newsgroups.Joachim
To me, both 'RC' and 'dev' indicate that for one reason or another, the developer is reluctant to say that it's a finished version. Nearly there... but not quite. This forum, the website and sourceforge is full of RCs and devs.
If everyone agrees that everything works properly in the 27-08-2004 RC4, why not make it available to download as PHPWCMS Version 1.1 ?
Then newcomers have a simple choice. They can either use current stable release. Or, they can test-drive the 'dev' releases and help iron out the bugs until it eventually becomes PHPWCMS 1.2.
And then on to 1.3
If everyone agrees that everything works properly in the 27-08-2004 RC4, why not make it available to download as PHPWCMS Version 1.1 ?
Then newcomers have a simple choice. They can either use current stable release. Or, they can test-drive the 'dev' releases and help iron out the bugs until it eventually becomes PHPWCMS 1.2.
And then on to 1.3
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jscholtysik
Hi Peekay,
that is the sense of dev-releases and RCs: To help the developer to find bugs and try to eliminate them or to find a workaround for the problem. Everybody screamed to Oliver: Please make dev-releases public so that we can test new functions. Oliver did it then and now some people scream because the dev-releases are (of course) not bugfree and not complete in their functions. But the 1.2.1 is so stable that you can use it in a production environment! In Oliver's stead I would withdraw the dev-releases because of the screamers and then I would let the screamers wait for a final release also for the risk of waiting another year. But then all the others would be discriminated who wants to help Oliver to improve phpwcms and take the risk to live with some minor bugs, that could be eliminated the next day, because Oliver lives for this cms system and tries to give his users a nearly bugfree system. But no program is 100% bugfree, consider this!
Are you further screaming or do you want to help Oliver?
I want to help him as much as possible. This is why we want to enhance the documentation as fast as possible. Oliver shall have the time to correct bugs and enhance phpwcms.
Once more: Try Typo3 and you will see how easy phpwcms is and how slow the support of Typo3 is. I speak from my own experience...
The Typo3 community publishes a new version nearly every half year and the documentation is nothing for beginners, because it is too technical...
Joachim
Joachim
that is the sense of dev-releases and RCs: To help the developer to find bugs and try to eliminate them or to find a workaround for the problem. Everybody screamed to Oliver: Please make dev-releases public so that we can test new functions. Oliver did it then and now some people scream because the dev-releases are (of course) not bugfree and not complete in their functions. But the 1.2.1 is so stable that you can use it in a production environment! In Oliver's stead I would withdraw the dev-releases because of the screamers and then I would let the screamers wait for a final release also for the risk of waiting another year. But then all the others would be discriminated who wants to help Oliver to improve phpwcms and take the risk to live with some minor bugs, that could be eliminated the next day, because Oliver lives for this cms system and tries to give his users a nearly bugfree system. But no program is 100% bugfree, consider this!
Are you further screaming or do you want to help Oliver?
I want to help him as much as possible. This is why we want to enhance the documentation as fast as possible. Oliver shall have the time to correct bugs and enhance phpwcms.
Once more: Try Typo3 and you will see how easy phpwcms is and how slow the support of Typo3 is. I speak from my own experience...
The Typo3 community publishes a new version nearly every half year and the documentation is nothing for beginners, because it is too technical...
Joachim
Joachim
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jscholtysik
Hi Peekay,
that is the sense of dev-releases and RCs: To help the developer to find bugs and try to eliminate them or to find a workaround for the problem. Everybody screamed to Oliver: Please make dev-releases public so that we can test new functions. Oliver did it then and now some people scream because the dev-releases are (of course) not bugfree and not complete in their functions. But the 1.2.1 is so stable that you can use it in a production environment! In Oliver's stead I would withdraw the dev-releases because of the screamers and then I would let the screamers wait for a final release also for the risk of waiting another year. But then all the others would be discriminated who wants to help Oliver to improve phpwcms and take the risk to live with some minor bugs, that could be eliminated the next day, because Oliver lives for this cms system and tries to give his users a nearly bugfree system. But no program is 100% bugfree, consider this!
Are you further screaming or do you want to help Oliver?
I want to help him as much as possible. This is why we want to enhance the documentation as fast as possible. Oliver shall have the time to correct bugs and enhance phpwcms.
Once more: Try Typo3 and you will see how easy phpwcms is and how slow the support of Typo3 is. I speak from my own experience...
The Typo3 community publishes a new version nearly every half year and the documentation is nothing for beginners, because it is too technical...
Joachim
that is the sense of dev-releases and RCs: To help the developer to find bugs and try to eliminate them or to find a workaround for the problem. Everybody screamed to Oliver: Please make dev-releases public so that we can test new functions. Oliver did it then and now some people scream because the dev-releases are (of course) not bugfree and not complete in their functions. But the 1.2.1 is so stable that you can use it in a production environment! In Oliver's stead I would withdraw the dev-releases because of the screamers and then I would let the screamers wait for a final release also for the risk of waiting another year. But then all the others would be discriminated who wants to help Oliver to improve phpwcms and take the risk to live with some minor bugs, that could be eliminated the next day, because Oliver lives for this cms system and tries to give his users a nearly bugfree system. But no program is 100% bugfree, consider this!
Are you further screaming or do you want to help Oliver?
I want to help him as much as possible. This is why we want to enhance the documentation as fast as possible. Oliver shall have the time to correct bugs and enhance phpwcms.
Once more: Try Typo3 and you will see how easy phpwcms is and how slow the support of Typo3 is. I speak from my own experience...
The Typo3 community publishes a new version nearly every half year and the documentation is nothing for beginners, because it is too technical...
Joachim
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Oliver Georgi
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9892
- Joined: Fri 3. Oct 2003, 22:22
- Contact:
Good discussion - thanks for your support
I know - it is a bad feeling for a lot of you because most information about me and futher releases are not made by myself. Most times I have used Pappnase to publish some infos...
So I want to inform you a bit more:
I really do not plan to release a "stable" 1.1. I don't have the time to fix all neccessary stuff in there to bring it to such level and it's not recommend by myself (and no good idea too). The best example: old project site is still running - based on the 1st public release of phpwcms.
For those of you are beeing angry about upgrading from 1.1-RC4 to current dev release I recommend: do it right now. The new release is so much better. OK there are limitations in search. But the caching... Image handling is much better. You have many new options - and 1.2.2 is fixed for many/most PHP notices (bugs).
As posted by some of you here too: I do not release (try to do so) unstable releases. And coming release will not have structural changes. This was done when upgrading from RC4 to dev - it's only the image and file handling that was changed. So use dev if you can.
I'm very limited in time because I have started working for a company in Berlin in February and have other jobs too. I will fix and finish phpwcms until next public release a lot. After this - think will be a 1.3 - I plan to build a team.
I have so many ideas... ...but no real roadmap right now. You all know what happens each time I post a timeline...
And there are some non-documented changes in 1.2.2.
@Fulvio: please post some informations about the enhancements I made for you
Oliver
I know - it is a bad feeling for a lot of you because most information about me and futher releases are not made by myself. Most times I have used Pappnase to publish some infos...
So I want to inform you a bit more:
I really do not plan to release a "stable" 1.1. I don't have the time to fix all neccessary stuff in there to bring it to such level and it's not recommend by myself (and no good idea too). The best example: old project site is still running - based on the 1st public release of phpwcms.
For those of you are beeing angry about upgrading from 1.1-RC4 to current dev release I recommend: do it right now. The new release is so much better. OK there are limitations in search. But the caching... Image handling is much better. You have many new options - and 1.2.2 is fixed for many/most PHP notices (bugs).
As posted by some of you here too: I do not release (try to do so) unstable releases. And coming release will not have structural changes. This was done when upgrading from RC4 to dev - it's only the image and file handling that was changed. So use dev if you can.
I'm very limited in time because I have started working for a company in Berlin in February and have other jobs too. I will fix and finish phpwcms until next public release a lot. After this - think will be a 1.3 - I plan to build a team.
I have so many ideas... ...but no real roadmap right now. You all know what happens each time I post a timeline...
And there are some non-documented changes in 1.2.2.
@Fulvio: please post some informations about the enhancements I made for you
Oliver
