Hi ppl,
OG has recently set up a WIKI for phpwcms, where you can add all the stuff you like.
http://www.phpwcms.de/wiki
In my opinion we should first transfer http://www.phpwcms-docu.de into this wiki in ordner to make it extensible more easy. What do you guys think about this subject?
While transfering the documentation we could also transfer the hole content of --...-- into the wiki. An important point would be to somehow keep the overview of alle the stuff an link to related articles as much as possible, so that future users will have it easy to find everything they need on their way.
cheers
brans
New official WIKI for phpwcms - http://www.phpwcms.de/wiki
we need to know if it is okay for pappnase...
http://www.studmed.dk Portal for doctors and medical students in Denmark
-
jscholtysik
Hi brans,
before we insert content into this new WIKI system, there should be a description, how the WIKI can be used (because not all people have already used a WIKI) and Oliver Georgi should publish a description or instructions how an article should look like so that we achieve an identical appearance of all articles (Some sort of "corporate identity"
)
There must be a well prepared guide to fill the WIKI!
It does not make sense, to clutter up the WIKI, because then we are at the same point as now...
Please to not forejudge!! Take some time to do the right things...
Joachim
before we insert content into this new WIKI system, there should be a description, how the WIKI can be used (because not all people have already used a WIKI) and Oliver Georgi should publish a description or instructions how an article should look like so that we achieve an identical appearance of all articles (Some sort of "corporate identity"
)There must be a well prepared guide to fill the WIKI!
It does not make sense, to clutter up the WIKI, because then we are at the same point as now...
Please to not forejudge!! Take some time to do the right things...
Joachim
-
cyber-james
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Mon 28. Jun 2004, 23:43
Mixed Mode
Hello together
and how is it about a clear separation of languages. i think, it is very important. I like http://www.phpwcms-docu.de, because i like to read the doku in german.
greez
cyber
and how is it about a clear separation of languages. i think, it is very important. I like http://www.phpwcms-docu.de, because i like to read the doku in german.
greez
cyber
guess you need several teams:
-main editors: building the structure of the WIKI, keeping the overview,
starting projects and tasks, controlling projects and tasks and so on...
-sub editors: doing all the typing work, filling in content to the structure
-translation team
it is important that someone keeps the overview and the target in mind.
and IMHO it is better doing one category after one category
(f.e. Installation, Configuration,...) then someone starts with Installation,
someone else with the guestbook and someone else with template-creation...
Because at the end serveral categories are started but none finished...
just my two cents
-main editors: building the structure of the WIKI, keeping the overview,
starting projects and tasks, controlling projects and tasks and so on...
-sub editors: doing all the typing work, filling in content to the structure
-translation team
it is important that someone keeps the overview and the target in mind.
and IMHO it is better doing one category after one category
(f.e. Installation, Configuration,...) then someone starts with Installation,
someone else with the guestbook and someone else with template-creation...
Because at the end serveral categories are started but none finished...
just my two cents
Greetz, tinoo
For dev brenner excellent idea, so we can categorize better and you can have some help from others, as for the docu, maybe a "do it here" section before Pap's approves it and put sin the official site.
Wiki is good idea but need some thought because only users with some experience will really publish there, as for the others i think the forum still is the right answer and a nice clean site as the docu site.
Meanwhile, there are being a lot of initiatives, maybe the wiki can contribute to put some order to it but... see this (and add if I forgot some):
official phpwcms site
phpwcms docu site
phpwcms forum
phpwcms mantis
phpwcms dev brenner MODS forum
phpwcms peperkorn (templates and explanations)
all other usefull sites (ionrock, pico, a lot actually...)
That is a lot of places to go (browse) and get the info, so a wiki can be usefull as in wikipedia ---> search a specific term and find the answer:
Example
RT = stands for "replacement tag" a replacement tag is ... blabla
--> then in text a link to the list of RT + code and so on...
I think there are enough people motivated (look at posts and answers) BUT you cannot be the admin of the forum, watch your dev site, watch the wiki, continue coding, I mean it becomes a lot of TIME...
Plus, the wiki is OPEN, wich mean anybody can edit whatever, so one must be very vigilant about the posts if it is something to be made "official". Wikipedia uses a sort of "good article" stamp which identifies a ... good article. We can use the same with phpwcms, set by admins.
I think there is a lot of material to be plugged from here (the forum) and re-introduced in a nicer way in the wiki BUT there is still the problem of an overmultiplication of ressources and in the end more is worse and sometimes less is better.
I don't know really "howto" but I'm eager to bring my contribution to it.
Cheers
Wiki is good idea but need some thought because only users with some experience will really publish there, as for the others i think the forum still is the right answer and a nice clean site as the docu site.
Meanwhile, there are being a lot of initiatives, maybe the wiki can contribute to put some order to it but... see this (and add if I forgot some):
official phpwcms site
phpwcms docu site
phpwcms forum
phpwcms mantis
phpwcms dev brenner MODS forum
phpwcms peperkorn (templates and explanations)
all other usefull sites (ionrock, pico, a lot actually...)
That is a lot of places to go (browse) and get the info, so a wiki can be usefull as in wikipedia ---> search a specific term and find the answer:
Example
RT = stands for "replacement tag" a replacement tag is ... blabla
--> then in text a link to the list of RT + code and so on...
I think there are enough people motivated (look at posts and answers) BUT you cannot be the admin of the forum, watch your dev site, watch the wiki, continue coding, I mean it becomes a lot of TIME...
Plus, the wiki is OPEN, wich mean anybody can edit whatever, so one must be very vigilant about the posts if it is something to be made "official". Wikipedia uses a sort of "good article" stamp which identifies a ... good article. We can use the same with phpwcms, set by admins.
I think there is a lot of material to be plugged from here (the forum) and re-introduced in a nicer way in the wiki BUT there is still the problem of an overmultiplication of ressources and in the end more is worse and sometimes less is better.
I don't know really "howto" but I'm eager to bring my contribution to it.
Cheers
1.3 out, testing, testing...
Sponsoring 4 phpwcms Blog and Usermanagement
Sponsoring 4 phpwcms Blog and Usermanagement
-
brans
Ok ppl,
I have slept very well last night and I have actually thought about the WIKI again.
As many of you already supposed, we should have a main admin team, which gives out some guidelines and which watches each and every new article. Apart from that there could be some volunteers made responsible for a special section (ex. one for installation, one for admin > templates etc.), where they will have to review all articles from time to time.
In my opinion pappnase should be one of the admins but not allone, because he has good ideas but he hasn't got enough time to do all the work on his own.
I would suppose to create a admin team containing the following people:
- OG himself
- Pappnase
- TriP
- pico
- pepe
- jsw_nz
- Kosse
and I'd be a volunteer on that you others'd have to decide wheter I should be in the team or not.
My intention is to bring together as well English as German speaking ppl and to make the most active and experienced phpwcms users responsible for the documentation.
If you have any other suggestions for an admin team, then please offer them here. I'd be great if there where also some French and Spanish speaking volunteers.
To bring it all into a short roadmap:
So far cheers,
andi
I have slept very well last night and I have actually thought about the WIKI again.
As many of you already supposed, we should have a main admin team, which gives out some guidelines and which watches each and every new article. Apart from that there could be some volunteers made responsible for a special section (ex. one for installation, one for admin > templates etc.), where they will have to review all articles from time to time.
In my opinion pappnase should be one of the admins but not allone, because he has good ideas but he hasn't got enough time to do all the work on his own.
I would suppose to create a admin team containing the following people:
- OG himself
- Pappnase
- TriP
- pico
- pepe
- jsw_nz
- Kosse
and I'd be a volunteer on that you others'd have to decide wheter I should be in the team or not.
My intention is to bring together as well English as German speaking ppl and to make the most active and experienced phpwcms users responsible for the documentation.
If you have any other suggestions for an admin team, then please offer them here. I'd be great if there where also some French and Spanish speaking volunteers.
To bring it all into a short roadmap:
- build an admin team
work out a concept and templates for the articles
create a table of contents including priority of articles
start working and identifying "Main-Editors" after a while
So far cheers,
andi
-
jscholtysik
Hi brans,
one question: Didn't you and Pepe also work with Pappnase on his Docu-Site in earlier days? What was the reason why you stopped it? No more lust or what else?
What do we have for a guarantee that you don't stop working in the WIKI system as well?
In my opinion the developer should (naturally) have the privilege to nominate the main team(s) with which he want to work.
Joachim
one question: Didn't you and Pepe also work with Pappnase on his Docu-Site in earlier days? What was the reason why you stopped it? No more lust or what else?
What do we have for a guarantee that you don't stop working in the WIKI system as well?
In my opinion the developer should (naturally) have the privilege to nominate the main team(s) with which he want to work.
Joachim
-
brans
hmm yes this was another possibility. But I think that a suggestion by the community wouldn't be a bad thing for him to get an idea what the community wants.
About the Docu:
Yes I was working at the docu too, but Pappnase as an admin had his own ideas and nobody could bring him away from these ideas. One day he had a DB crash after a version update of phpwcms. Since then it took him about 5 weeks and about a daily email from me to answer at least one question. He didn't answer me in MSN or by email anymore.
The reason was that I wanted to build up dev-brenner-b-e, as TriP and me did now. Pappnase and OG didn't like the idea of another open ressource site for phpwcms. I tried to contact Pappnase about each day to talk to him about an integration of the hacks/mods section into his docu site, in order to keep it all centralised. All I got about 2 month of trying to reach him was 2 answers: "OG doesn't like it" "I don't like it", but he wasn't able to talk to me about a better solution and since then didn't answer whenever I tried to contact him.
His only excuse was, that he had been very busy working. Please man tell me? Have you ever been so busy that you couldn't answer ONE and the same email or even tell someone to wait a few weeks for your answer?
Sorry I didn't want to wait for Pappnase to become active and built up dev-brenner-b-e together with TriP.
Well now you got the reason why I seriously don't want Pappnase to have the full control over the WIKI on his own, no matter if I'm part of the admin team or not. I think that he does great work for the community and I respect his work, BUT I f*cking don't like ppl that become so damned snooty as soon as they have reached something in their life.
As I'd call myself a reasonable person I'd try to work together with him again, assumed that we both are being "voted" into the admin team and that there will be such an admin team. But what I wish to have is a team that is diverse enough in ordner to not let one person do such things again.
As for your other point, nobody can give you a guarantee, that I'll be active inside this project for all my life but I can say that I like phpwcms and don't have the money do donate. Instead of donating I invest a lot of time into the community and seriously want to continue my work, as I like it so far. Yes for sure, there might be some mistakes I did in the past, but dude, I'm a human being and it's not more than natural that we do mistakes (same for Pappnase).
I'm not an unforgiving person as long as ppl who make mistakes think about them and try not to do them again.
Long speach, short sense:
I want to try working with Pappnase again and I'm really motivated to build up one central phpwcms ressource site, offering all the stuff you need in a manner that even the "community newbies" can find it immediately. I want to go on straight forward, together with a great team of motivated and hard working people, and together with one of the top 3 communities I've found on the internet so far. No matter wether I'm a member of the admin team or just a simple editor, or even "only" a normal user and contributor.
Thank you for reading my long statement. As I don't want to continue the discussion about past mistakes in this forum, for keeping this thread clean, please contact me by email, with copy to other persons if you like, for further questions on this topic.
cheers
Andi
As about pepe: You'll have to ask himself I don't know any details about the separation of these guys.
About the Docu:
Yes I was working at the docu too, but Pappnase as an admin had his own ideas and nobody could bring him away from these ideas. One day he had a DB crash after a version update of phpwcms. Since then it took him about 5 weeks and about a daily email from me to answer at least one question. He didn't answer me in MSN or by email anymore.
The reason was that I wanted to build up dev-brenner-b-e, as TriP and me did now. Pappnase and OG didn't like the idea of another open ressource site for phpwcms. I tried to contact Pappnase about each day to talk to him about an integration of the hacks/mods section into his docu site, in order to keep it all centralised. All I got about 2 month of trying to reach him was 2 answers: "OG doesn't like it" "I don't like it", but he wasn't able to talk to me about a better solution and since then didn't answer whenever I tried to contact him.
His only excuse was, that he had been very busy working. Please man tell me? Have you ever been so busy that you couldn't answer ONE and the same email or even tell someone to wait a few weeks for your answer?
Sorry I didn't want to wait for Pappnase to become active and built up dev-brenner-b-e together with TriP.
Well now you got the reason why I seriously don't want Pappnase to have the full control over the WIKI on his own, no matter if I'm part of the admin team or not. I think that he does great work for the community and I respect his work, BUT I f*cking don't like ppl that become so damned snooty as soon as they have reached something in their life.
As I'd call myself a reasonable person I'd try to work together with him again, assumed that we both are being "voted" into the admin team and that there will be such an admin team. But what I wish to have is a team that is diverse enough in ordner to not let one person do such things again.
As for your other point, nobody can give you a guarantee, that I'll be active inside this project for all my life but I can say that I like phpwcms and don't have the money do donate. Instead of donating I invest a lot of time into the community and seriously want to continue my work, as I like it so far. Yes for sure, there might be some mistakes I did in the past, but dude, I'm a human being and it's not more than natural that we do mistakes (same for Pappnase).
I'm not an unforgiving person as long as ppl who make mistakes think about them and try not to do them again.
Long speach, short sense:
I want to try working with Pappnase again and I'm really motivated to build up one central phpwcms ressource site, offering all the stuff you need in a manner that even the "community newbies" can find it immediately. I want to go on straight forward, together with a great team of motivated and hard working people, and together with one of the top 3 communities I've found on the internet so far. No matter wether I'm a member of the admin team or just a simple editor, or even "only" a normal user and contributor.
Thank you for reading my long statement. As I don't want to continue the discussion about past mistakes in this forum, for keeping this thread clean, please contact me by email, with copy to other persons if you like, for further questions on this topic.
cheers
Andi
As about pepe: You'll have to ask himself I don't know any details about the separation of these guys.
wow
Wow,
Sorry, I'll stop posting here. (as u asked brans)
But I can't help it, so here it goes:
That is a post!
I feel proud to be named, my humble contribution can be in french and spanish as well.
As for the past... well it is the past, things change, don't they?
As I pointed out, wiki is very (very) open, so admins are there only to see guidelines but the community is the one who really rules wiki.
Cheers
Sorry, I'll stop posting here. (as u asked brans)But I can't help it, so here it goes:
That is a post!
I feel proud to be named, my humble contribution can be in french and spanish as well.
As for the past... well it is the past, things change, don't they?
As I pointed out, wiki is very (very) open, so admins are there only to see guidelines but the community is the one who really rules wiki.
Cheers
1.3 out, testing, testing...
Sponsoring 4 phpwcms Blog and Usermanagement
Sponsoring 4 phpwcms Blog and Usermanagement
-
brans
totally agree, Admins will be mostly needed in the start up time in order to organize the structure of the WIKI. As soon as there is a basis of well organized articles, the community will manage the system nearly on its own, Admins will be only there to make sure that people stay inline with the guidelines and rules, and even that job is partially taken over by the community (try to post any senseless stuff into wikipedia and see how fast it'll disappear!).Kosse wrote:so admins are there only to see guidelines but the community is the one who really rules wiki
before I would take any action I would like to have a official explonation from OG...Why did he install a wiki? What is his idea with it? Im sure he have one - OGs is never wasting his time...
Im pretty sure it'snt meant to be used to do the same job as phpwcms-docu.de and I think it will be waste time moving all content. And by the way I think it will remove a lot of the credit Pappnase have from the docu-site.
Im pretty sure it'snt meant to be used to do the same job as phpwcms-docu.de and I think it will be waste time moving all content. And by the way I think it will remove a lot of the credit Pappnase have from the docu-site.
http://www.studmed.dk Portal for doctors and medical students in Denmark
Please tell me why we need a Wiki? phpWCMS is a content management system. Normally such systems could used for publishing any kind of information Why we do not try to enhance, restructure and merge existing docu sites? On the one hand this would be a good training for us and we will point out what is still missing in our lovely phpWMCS. On the other hand we get an example for what is realy possible with phpWCMS. From my point of view, it is not necessary to talk about the introduction of a Wiki system, because we have phpWCMS. But I agree that it would make sense to organize people who will push and help to create a documentation plattform which comply with all our wishes.
BR
Wolfgang
Why we do not try to enhance, restructure and merge existing docu sites? On the one hand this would be a good training for us and we will point out what is still missing in our lovely phpWMCS. On the other hand we get an example for what is realy possible with phpWCMS. From my point of view, it is not necessary to talk about the introduction of a Wiki system, because we have phpWCMS. But I agree that it would make sense to organize people who will push and help to create a documentation plattform which comply with all our wishes.BR
Wolfgang
-
brans
You can see a very old thread, that shows what the wiki was originally thought for )documentation).
Anotherone, where the idea has been brought to a structure (documentation again).
And finally one of the last days, where OG makes the following statement (discussion about templates, tuts and documentation):
@kubens: phpwcms is NO documentation system, but a content management system. Wikimedia was developed to be a documentation system, and in my opinion is the best solution available. How would you like to achieve such a diversity of authors when using phpwcms? It`s never gonna be possible.
I think that the hole community knows about who has written most of the documentation and a WIKI system can give credit to the authors as well as phpwcms can.
Anotherone, where the idea has been brought to a structure (documentation again).
And finally one of the last days, where OG makes the following statement (discussion about templates, tuts and documentation):
Translation of the most important statements from the quote:Oliver Georgi wrote:Wir hatten anfänglich mal ein Wiki aufgesetzt - aber da tat sich nichts. Allerdings hat die Community längst eine kritische Masse überschritten - vielleicht nun doch wieder der richtige Augenblick.
P.S. Wenn, dann setze ich das auf meinem Server auf - ist sicher sinnvoller - Oder?
Ich werde für die nächste Release mal noch im Setup eine Option mit aufnehmen, zwischen 2-3 Standard-Templates wählen zu können. Dann erhält man eine fertige Umgebung. Habe genügend in der Schublade - ansonsten auch nicht so viel Arbeit
- - We`ve once had a WIKI but nobody used it
- The community has become critically big, the right time to introduce a wiki might have come now
@kubens: phpwcms is NO documentation system, but a content management system. Wikimedia was developed to be a documentation system, and in my opinion is the best solution available. How would you like to achieve such a diversity of authors when using phpwcms? It`s never gonna be possible.
I think that the hole community knows about who has written most of the documentation and a WIKI system can give credit to the authors as well as phpwcms can.