Me == discouraged

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Kosse
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Me == discouraged

Post by Kosse » Mon 9. Oct 2006, 00:52

Hi all,

been silent for a while, lots of work (with phpwcms systems and XT as well).

The way things are going with phpwcms... makes me feel sad :cry:
XT was a nice try to integrate mods but pico's alone on that one and after a while, system is getting too buggy... (ok sue me because I talk about other thing then pure phpwcms)

Phpwcms is evolving, and that's nice too but seems that the versions are more and more 'closed' to all outside input* (mods, enhancements...). *[A thing that was also good about phpwcms... :/ ]

This is getting very difficult to follow, you have to be on the forum every day or week or after that all what you learned/did makes no sense anymore... :(

I'm getting really desperate and thinking about loosing all the time invested in the product and dropping phpwcms makes me (1) sad and (2) angry.

Dunno about you guys, but I'm almost quiting this :(
Can anyone comfort me and say: take it easy kosse, things are getting better and you're completely wrong...?

Sad Marcos

Ben
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Post by Ben » Mon 9. Oct 2006, 05:04

Take it easy Kosse. Things are getting better and you're completely wrong. (There ... I said it.) Actually, I don't think you are completely wrong, and I understand how much time you have invested with the cms and community. I'd hate to see you go. Can I ask why you might be moving on? Is it certain features that you need? I haven't seen any other open source cms's out there that can lure me away. Some of the best things for me with phpwcms are the image management, form creation abilities, templating and ease of content editing.

I think what might help progress is if Oliver sought out donations more actively. Maybe he should set goals of a few hundred or thousand euros before he can begin work on a new feature. If we made things more financially attractive for him to invest time, I think we'd see quicker development. What do you think?

rushclub
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Re: Me == discouraged

Post by rushclub » Mon 9. Oct 2006, 09:20

Kosse wrote:take it easy kosse, things are getting better and you're completely wrong.
i would like to say it, but i cant stand behind these words. like the very first time in this forum, fe-support is arround the corner and on the way.

many updates with cool features but the most wanted thing is not available. phpwcms is great, but ... i dont know.

rush
3 (!) Jahre warten reichen mir. Ich bin erst mal weg.

Fexxx
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Post by Fexxx » Mon 9. Oct 2006, 09:55

Please, OG don´t spend your energy for guestbook, newsletter , ecards, new backend layout... etc! We can get this functionality and tools from X other developers around the internet...

To use this GREAT CMS in a professional way, it´s extremly important to have a (basic) userrightsmanagement.

Best wishes,
Fexxx

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Kosse
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Post by Kosse » Mon 9. Oct 2006, 13:05

Ben wrote:Take it easy Kosse. Things are getting better and you're completely wrong. (There ... I said it.) Actually, I don't think you are completely wrong, and I understand how much time you have invested with the cms and community. I'd hate to see you go. Can I ask why you might be moving on? Is it certain features that you need? I haven't seen any other open source cms's out there that can lure me away. Some of the best things for me with phpwcms are the image management, form creation abilities, templating and ease of content editing.

I think what might help progress is if Oliver sought out donations more actively. Maybe he should set goals of a few hundred or thousand euros before he can begin work on a new feature. If we made things more financially attractive for him to invest time, I think we'd see quicker development. What do you think?
Hi Ben, thanks for your words :) appreciate it.
And actually yes, let's gather together all people that use phpwcms to support their professional living and see how much we can put on the table (and I know 100 bucks ain't gonna do much about it). But is OG ok with that? Seems to me (I might be wrong, but only he can correct me on that one I guess) that he hasn't till now be open to such kind of propositions, only: support if you want, but dont ask me this or that. Again, I might be wrong, but I'm open to other proposals.
About functionnalities, people (I mean PEOPLE, normal customers, the kind you CANNOT explain how to use urchin or your backend tracking system) understand little amounts of info.
So yes, VTS is a great ressource; little, understandable and in the backend.
Same goes for the MODs (like ExData replacement and such)...
These are only examples and not an exhaustiv list of course. My point: user focused.

But if I have to invest (lots of) time keeping the pace, it's not a deal anymore... :(
rushclub wrote:
Kosse wrote:take it easy kosse, things are getting better and you're completely wrong.
i would like to say it, but i cant stand behind these words. like the very first time in this forum, fe-support is arround the corner and on the way.
many updates with cool features but the most wanted thing is not available. phpwcms is great, but ... i dont know.
rush
Yet another example... :(
Fexxx wrote:Please, OG don´t spend your energy for guestbook, newsletter , ecards, new backend layout... etc! We can get this functionality and tools from X other developers around the internet...

To use this GREAT CMS in a professional way, it´s extremly important to have a (basic) userrightsmanagement.

Best wishes,
Fexxx
Yeps, true too.

I dunno what to do, but I'm an open minded person (as I think you all know) and full of good will and eagerness to do better and help more, but not in vain.

Cheers

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Oliver Georgi
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Post by Oliver Georgi » Sun 15. Oct 2006, 23:07

OK, I see and I know your feelings very well. But I can not agree to all points. I force to keep the development very close to my person. Believe me - it's much better. OK, not very democratic because most decisions of further development are just pure commercial ones = saving my income and development.

I also know that better user support is very important - but for most installs it's really NOT neccessary. But it is on the way. Again here - the focus isn't on FE users - it's on permissions in the backend. This is more complex and lot of work was/is neccessary. Time doesn't stand still - 1 year of very inactive development ... I had to do a lot of cleaning and securing phpwcms.

On the other hand - investing time in guestbook and such stuff is very important too because this is used more often than FE users. phpwcms was never planned to be a tool to handle communities - so support of FE users wasn't in the focus.

VTS will never be supported. There is really no need for it - always better to use tracking specialists. Working tracking code samples are implemented by default - should be enough.

Mods in general: I'm not able to trace 3rd party development. Most of the mods I have seen are terrible - sorry. Bad concept, bad code - just hacks! I really have no idea how to handle this.

Last words! Remember - I'm an "old" man. Not that 20-year old guy anymore beeing able to work day and night. And - SORRY - I have some interests beside working...

Oliver
Oliver Georgi | phpwcms Developer | GitHub | LinkedIn | Систрон

rushclub
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Post by rushclub » Mon 16. Oct 2006, 09:01

Oliver Georgi wrote:OK, I see and I know your feelings very well. But I can not agree to all points. I force to keep the development very close to my person. Believe me - it's much better. OK, not very democratic because most decisions of further development are just pure commercial ones = saving my income and development.

I also know that better user support is very important - but for most installs it's really NOT neccessary. But it is on the way. Again here - the focus isn't on FE users - it's on permissions in the backend. This is more complex and lot of work was/is neccessary. Time doesn't stand still - 1 year of very inactive development ... I had to do a lot of cleaning and securing phpwcms.

On the other hand - investing time in guestbook and such stuff is very important too because this is used more often than FE users. phpwcms was never planned to be a tool to handle communities - so support of FE users wasn't in the focus.

VTS will never be supported. There is really no need for it - always better to use tracking specialists. Working tracking code samples are implemented by default - should be enough.

Mods in general: I'm not able to trace 3rd party development. Most of the mods I have seen are terrible - sorry. Bad concept, bad code - just hacks! I really have no idea how to handle this.

Last words! Remember - I'm an "old" man. Not that 20-year old guy anymore beeing able to work day and night. And - SORRY - I have some interests beside working...

Oliver
did that mean, that no fe-support is on the way :?:

rush
3 (!) Jahre warten reichen mir. Ich bin erst mal weg.

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Post by Oliver Georgi » Mon 16. Oct 2006, 09:30

rushclub wrote:did that mean, that no fe-support is on the way :?:
Does not mean that no FE-support is on the way. FE-support is just a part of the permissions thing.

Oliver
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rushclub
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Post by rushclub » Mon 16. Oct 2006, 09:48

Oliver Georgi wrote:
rushclub wrote:did that mean, that no fe-support is on the way :?:
Does not mean that no FE-support is on the way. FE-support is just a part of the permissions thing.

Oliver
o.k. thanks for your answer ;)

rush
3 (!) Jahre warten reichen mir. Ich bin erst mal weg.

cyber-james
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Post by cyber-james » Wed 18. Oct 2006, 13:16

Oh my god! OG an old man!?! Ich denke, kaufe mir noch heute nen
Dreamweaver-Upgrade und mach' in Zukunft wieder statische Seiten. :x

Ebenso weiss ich aus Erfahrung, dass zwei von drei Webnutzern gerne
einen per Passwort geschützten, versteckten Bereich wünschen! Dabei
ginge es NICHT um die Bildung einer Community! Schade, schade.
phpWCMS ist tot, lang lebe phpWCMS!

Greez
cy

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Oliver Georgi
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Post by Oliver Georgi » Wed 18. Oct 2006, 14:47

cyber-james wrote:Ebenso weiss ich aus Erfahrung, dass zwei von drei Webnutzern gerne
einen per Passwort geschützten, versteckten Bereich wünschen!
Und ich weiß aus Erfahrung, dass genau diese 2 von 3 genau das nur wollen, weil sie glauben man müsste das haben ;-)

Aber sie bekommen es doch! Mein Gott!

Oliver
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rushclub
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Post by rushclub » Wed 18. Oct 2006, 16:51

Oliver Georgi wrote:
cyber-james wrote:Ebenso weiss ich aus Erfahrung, dass zwei von drei Webnutzern gerne
einen per Passwort geschützten, versteckten Bereich wünschen!
Und ich weiß aus Erfahrung, dass genau diese 2 von 3 genau das nur wollen, weil sie glauben man müsste das haben ;-)

Aber sie bekommen es doch! Mein Gott!

Oliver
sorry, wenn ich da nochmal einhake. es gibt viele sites (zu viele) wo loginbereich eine alibifunktion haben - stimmt. aber es gibt auch sehr sinnvolle anwendungen im btob-bereich.

gruesse
rush
3 (!) Jahre warten reichen mir. Ich bin erst mal weg.

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Re: Me == discouraged

Post by StudioZ » Wed 18. Oct 2006, 17:04

Kosse wrote:... Phpwcms is evolving, and that's nice too but seems that the versions are more and more 'closed' to all outside input* (mods, enhancements...). *[A thing that was also good about phpwcms... :/ ]

This is getting very difficult to follow, you have to be on the forum every day or week or after that all what you learned/did makes no sense anymore... :(

I'm getting really desperate and thinking about loosing all the time invested in the product and dropping phpwcms makes me (1) sad and (2) angry.

Dunno about you guys, but I'm almost quiting this :(
Can anyone comfort me and say: take it easy kosse, things are getting better and you're completely wrong...?

Sad Marcos
Greetings Marcos,

Soory to missed that post :roll:

Hey! Beleive me! I very well understand all you have been
going through. :wink:
I think you might/could find some food for toughts here:
http://www.phpwcms.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74991

The community needs a guys like you. (thumbs up)
Please take some rest and reevaluate all this.
I miss my positive dude. I think you simply hitted the wall as I did a couple months ago. Take time for yourself and your family and... reconsider all this and... I am ABSOLUTELY sure the sun will get back shining again for you. We need you Marcos our Belgian Friend :D :D :D

Sincerly,

Yves
Image
PhpWCMS Evangelist, -- iRoutier.com Running phpWCMS 1.4.2, r354 -> Great Version!!!!

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Kosse
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Post by Kosse » Fri 20. Oct 2006, 13:03

Thank you all for participating in this thread and for your (very) kind words. As said before, this community has something to it = nice people.

I hope we can sort this out and Oliver, should you need REAL help (financial, codes, desgin, whatever), why not asking precisely what we can do? When a client comes with a nice budget and he asks things that are not considered in phpwcms, we can ask you, right? Because before (1 or 2 years ago) you were too busy...

And.. I have a life too you know (my wife knows something about it, she started to hate phpwcms without knowing it, for her it is/was just a name that meant==time consuming). And, as you, I'm not 20 anymore and I love seeing my family, friends, reading newspapers, going to the movies, skiing, karting, hicking, travelling... ;)

Hope we (read phpwcms) can keep the pace with today's web crazy speed (css, tagging, ajax, xml's, rules, handhelds...) because it's also about that...

Cheers

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Post by Oliver Georgi » Fri 20. Oct 2006, 13:50

:)

Oliver
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